Duck Reaction #2 | The nightmare Steam

We’re back with Mathieu and Simon for this second episode of Tales from the devs devoted to their studio Duck Reaction. As a reminder, in the first article (available here) we discussed why their previous game was abandoned and the prototyping of Turbo Live, their current project. So it’s three months later and we’re back with an update on the progress of their project. On top of that, we discussed the difficulties they’ve encountered with the giant Steam, from festival cancellations to the creation of a page on the shop. So I’ll leave you to discover this new exchange in which Mathieu is a little less present, because in addition to his role as developer, he has recently added the role of dad. So here’s the first question!

Inksushi: Hello guys, how have you been since last time?

Mathieu: Everything’s fine. Things got a bit complicated with the cancellation of the Steam festival we wanted to organize.

Simon: The project’s progressing and we’re even managing to take weekends off now and then, so it’s going well. In any case, we’re delighted to be chatting to you again. Where did we leave off last time?

Inksushi : You explained to me that the previous project had been abandoned and presented the new one, which was at the concept stage. By the way, if you want a reminder.

Mathieu: We’ve started production on the “Turbo Live” project, which is a game based on Twitch integrations that allow the steamer to play with his viewers. Before we talk about that, we need to tell you about the festival idea we had. In partnership with Steam, we wanted to create an event that would bring together games that you could play with your Twitch community. Simon, I’ll let you tell the story.

Simon: We came up with the idea to raise our profile. Not just for us, but also for the studios that have really developed original interactions for Twitch. Other games have had the same idea as us, but not many. We’re primarily making a game for streamers, but it can also be played solo. We use the great API (editor’s note: I’ll explain below) made available by the platform. Often, these are things that are put in place at the end of production, but the implementation becomes complicated because they’re not thought through beforehand. In the end, the team shelves the idea. So we wanted to highlight the games that developed it. We contacted the people involved, with the help of quite a few people, you, people who worked at Devolver, etc.

Mathieu : I have to admit that we were a bit insistent at times, but we got quite a few replies. Well, let’s just say that if we didn’t get any replies by email, we tried social networks or intermediaries. In fact, we managed to contact Devolver via Cult of the lamb‘s community manager on Linkedln.

Simon: There was also the case of the Ultimate Chicken Horse developers, with whom we didn’t manage to get in touch. Once the festival was cancelled, they wrote back saying they were sorry, but that they hadn’t seen our message. They were really keen to take part. Most of the people we contacted responded positively to our proposal, and we had almost twenty participants.

API (Application Programming Interface)

For those of you who are completely unfamiliar with the concept of APIs (Application Programming Interfaces in French), I’m going to give you a little clarification. It’s a tool that links two software applications. In simple terms, this tool collects data from one and the other so that they can interact. In our example, this means getting TurboLive and Twitch to communicate. Mathieu and Simon use an API to ensure that chat commands have an effect in the game.

On Twitch, interfacing is important, and is used by all streamers to manage a host of elements via software such as OBS and Streamlabs. It’s via this tool that you can manage subs, raid alerts and various other displays. There are a large number of functions that are not used, or are used very little, and that’s where our developers want to come in. In the meantime, a very good example of a game that uses it is Linkito, a puzzle game with riddles that have to be solved in streamer/viewer cooperation.

Of course, using this interface requires a certain amount of knowledge of development and several languages, especially when you want to use existing applications for which tutorials are available online. Even though Twitch provides a number of documents on its website, the task can be complicated for the novice.

Inksushi : We were off to a good start, so why did you have to cancel?

Simon: We’d obviously contacted Steam and they’d agreed to let us do a bit of communication on the platform. At one point, we got a message telling us that they’d thought about it and that, in fact, it was putting too much emphasis on Twitch and that they weren’t following us any more.

Mathieu : We forgot one detail. We had started building the “themed sales” page with the help of a graphic designer. We’re used to working with her. What’s more, we asked her to give priority to our request because we needed time to get the page validated. We didn’t really have a clear idea of what we wanted, so we didn’t help her with that. She was very responsive and the project was well advanced when we cancelled.

Simon: We started sketching out the page thinking that the better it looked, the better it would go down on Steam. It was proof that we were really committed to the project. You have to realise that a lot of other people are proposing events, so we wanted to stand out. Plus, we had some great games behind us, so we had to honour them: Cult of the Lamb, Dead Cells, Vampire Survivor, Linkito. Linkito is made by a French solo dev and it’s a great game. We wanted everyone to be in the spotlight. When we got the message from Steam, we were a bit disgusted, but we thought that if we pushed a bit, we’d get through. So Mathieu prepared a great message explaining that it wasn’t just in Twitch’s interest to highlight games like Republic of Jungle. It’s a voting game where you can play with your community, but it’s over the phone. We also had quiz games without Twitch. The theme was really original interactions that influence gameplay regardless of the platform. We were happy to have succeeded in bringing together big names and small indie companies. Our goal of putting everyone in the spotlight, including ourselves, was just around the corner. Anyway, we sent our famous message, waited two weeks and finally got a reply that could be summed up as “we understand, but it’s still no”. Negotiations over…

Inksushi: I suppose you’ve thought about changing the proposal?

Simon: At the time, we thought about opening up to other games, to the community aspect in the broadest sense, like Fall Guys. We thought that these are games that touch a lot of players at the same time, but we were expanding the scope too much. The risk was that we’d have too many things to manage and then we’d lose the originality of the event.

Mathieu: Our initial criterion was interaction with the stream. If we took that away, we wouldn’t know who to say yes to and who to say no to. Simon: We also wanted this interaction to go beyond chat. For us, that’s not enough, we wanted to go further. Obviously, we didn’t have a plan B, but we’re keeping the idea in mind and perhaps developing it into a face-to-face event or one with streamers, and we’re thinking of going through an agency. Of course, the budget is close to zero, but we have a few contacts. We’re thinking that it’s a win-win situation, and perhaps we could offer the games, which are a way of interacting with our community, in exchange for visibility.

Inksushi: And take part in other events?

Simon: There might be something to negotiate because I know there are events coming up. Why not try to get contacts and subsidies to open a Twitch games stand at Paris Game Week. The problem is that it would start to become a full-time job and we’d need someone to manage communications.

Mathieu: The idea is always to highlight games that are part of the community and encourage streamers to play them. We like this win-win situation, which benefits everyone.

Simon: We always come back to the fact that if you want to put in place ways of gaining visibility, you need to have a bit of a reputation to start with. Given that we were counting on that to a certain extent to build our reputation, it’s a bit annoying.

Inksushi : Couldn’t you have anticipated it?

Mathieu: We didn’t know that Steam would do a second review of our proposal. With the agreement in principle, we were convinced that it was good, so we threw ourselves into the page and the contacts without thinking that they were going to cancel. It was a bit of a crushing blow.

Simon: The good thing about all this is that we’ve picked up quite a few contacts in what we want to do. Whether it’s studios or people from outside, there’s a lot of interest in this type of game and that’s comforting. Given the economic situation in the video game industry, streamers are pretty much the only way to get by as an independent because publishers are increasingly demanding. You have to have fifty thousand wishlists for them to take notice of you. When Mathieu and I saw that, we said to ourselves that with that many wishlists we could manage on our own. We posted a list of the games we’d spotted on our Discord so that anyone interested could find them. All in all, Turbo Live has real potential, we just need to find the right people to help us get started.

Inksushi: There are some games that already have a large community. Have you considered organising an event without the help of Steam?

Simon: We did think about it, thinking that it would mix the different communities. The reality is that we don’t have a big enough commu, nor a streamer who could do the show for us and bring in people. When we approached the various studios, we told them about the showcase on Steam and that they wouldn’t have to do anything. If we ask them to mobilise their community and do a bit of communication, it changes the game. There’s a risk that we’ll end up managing everything and that’s clearly not our job. We’re thinking that, with a bit of luck, if we make the same proposal next year and it falls to a different person in-house, it might go through. We’re also thinking that Steam sells games because streamers talk about them on Twitch, so it benefits everyone. We don’t really understand this refusal, perhaps a fear that the Twitch logo will be everywhere or perhaps a Valve/Amazon conflict.

Mathieu: It’s true that Amazon is starting to try and carve out a place for itself in video game distribution. What’s more, we don’t have a partnership with Twitch, so maybe they were afraid of getting into trouble. Steam, on the other hand, is introducing streaming options from any game. All this to say that direct competition may be starting to emerge and that we’ve come at a bad time.

Inksushi: Looking back on this setback, how did you react?

Simon: The good news is that there was no ambiguity, we knew there would be no going back on their decision. We let go of the idea and concentrated on the game, and we’ve made a hell of a leap forward. As you’ve seen on the networks, it’s mainly the visuals that have progressed. We’re happy with the progress we’ve made.

Mathieu: Plus, we’ve made some really cool contacts and that’s always a good thing, especially in a business like independent video games.

Inksushi: It’s a shame that a good idea has fallen by the wayside. The important thing is that the motivation hasn’t been dented. Let’s move on to the second part. Where are you on Turbo Live today?

Simon: As I was saying, the cancellation of the festival allowed us to get back to work on Turbo Live. Lately, we’ve been focusing on gamefeel and feedback. Quite simply, we want to make the game cool. Up until then, we felt that the game wasn’t really appealing, so we’ve been working on making it more enjoyable. A little boost to the gamefeel and game design changes a lot of things. Without going too far for the moment, there’s a feeling of progression with a Devil May Cry-style voice as a reward. I’m doing the voice, which is also in the trailer, inspired by a character from Brooklyn Nine-Nine. We wanted to come up with a video that was a bit different from the standard gameplay or cinematics. So we went for this over-excited, slightly WTF character, who really captures the game’s dynamism and zany side. Well, maybe my neighbours wondered what was going on, but they seemed to like it. Some of them even thought that Amixem had been asked to lend his voice, but no, it’s me. It’s homemade, it allows you to do something else, I think it’s fun. In the end, it’s a bit of a mixed bag, with some positive feedback and others more mixed. Mathieu and I take on this creative side, rather than offering something aseptic that doesn’t provoke anything. In this case, those who like it will really like it. In any case, we had a lot of fun on this trailer.

Mathieu: Overall, it’s a really nice little game, you’re not going to spend thirty hours on it. On the other hand, I think it goes further than other games, especially from a polish point of view. Even though I think Meaningless (editor’s note: their previous game) is quite accomplished, in Turbo Live we push everything to the limit, every button, the effects, even the Steam page. The artist who did the capsule did a great job. I’d say we’ve passed a milestone in the way we work.

Simon: I agree. With Meaningless, we released our first game and gained a lot of acceptance in the industry, proving that we could see a project through to the end. Even if in terms of gameplay it’s a small game, for our portfolio it’s a demonstration of a level we want to reach in all our projects. Mathieu has developed some great tools that we’ll be able to reuse later, for example, we can quickly add sound events or VFX. Because the experiment is so small, we’ve replayed it thousands of times and each time we adjust a little thing, a feedback or something else, so that the game is very rich in this aspect. And I think that’s cool. There’s no guarantee that the game will work, but it will be useful for negotiating funding for other projects. It’s a bit like a demonstration of our polish skills. As a developer, when you start enjoying replaying your game, it’s because your work is working. I feel rewarded even when I lose because there’s a bit of an epic effect. It’s a designer thing, the gamefeel is really what allows you to enjoy your game again. The gameplay and the different loops are important, but here you’re in the moment, and that’s really nice. We’re a bit in line with this trend, which goes against the grain of studios that are making increasingly long and complete games. We’re concentrating on a fine-tuned experience. And even for the test phases, there’s no need to try out a whole host of features. You just launch the game and see whether it works.

Inksushi: And how do you see the future?

Simon: We’ve entered the game for the Steam Next Fest in October, but there are several possibilities. What happens next depends on how we get on, we don’t want to put any pressure on ourselves. We’re already planning to do some private playtests between now and then to get an idea of what players think. The festival is mainly to give us a boost. It’s possible that we’ll release the game before then, in which case we’ll simply cancel it. The third option is that the game is finished but we’ll wait until October, while starting another project if we get fed up with Turbo Live. That way, we can release the game after Steam Next Fest, during which we can do a few hotfixes. And in the end, if the game works, we can come back to it to flesh it out a bit. In the longer term, we already have other ideas for going further with Twitch that are easier to sell. We’re thinking of a free ‘showcase’ game to raise our profile and show what we can do. A bit like Sheepy: a short adventure (itw PnT) which features music. It’s a very small free game, but it’s very high quality. By offering our game for free, we hope to grow our X and Discord community.

Mathieu: We have the feeling that Turbo Live isn’t going to be the one to take us off. We see it more as a springboard. We feel that it’s a really necessary, even essential, step. For the future, we really need to build a solid community that will help us with future games. If the game is a success, we might even consider hiring someone. Clearly, we’d like someone to be in charge of communications, because that’s the part that weighs on us the most.

Simon: To sum up, we’re making real progress in terms of skills and professionalism. The feedback we get from other studios helps us a lot. It’s helped us get past the Steam page, whether it’s the font or even the editorial direction. What we’re looking to do is make solo games and streamers, and that’s our market, community games. We want to encourage as much Twitch interaction as possible and build up the community. We’ve got a little idea for an idle game that’s starting to take shape, but for the moment we’re not saying much more about it, apart from the fact that we want to do something more relaxing. Getting back to Turbo Live, we’ve got several game modes (including one that’s still being worked on), so we’re still polishing things up a bit. We’re also thinking about difficulty management.

Mathieu: Among the things we’re waiting on, score management is one of the priorities, as well as implementing a football mode and finalising the Twitch part. As far as Twitch is concerned, we’ve already got quite a lot of stuff, but it’s not yet linked to specific commands. We should be able to offer a playable version soon, but we’re still sticking to the idea of not putting ourselves under pressure. The aim is also to do a lot of testing with steamers to make sure that everything works as it should, whatever the size of the community.

Simon: We’ve also got a horror game concept in the back of our minds, again viewers versus streamers, but in a new way. In the same way, we’re not talking too much about it. And then, for a horror game, we’d go for the Unreal Engine, which is a more suitable engine but one that we’re less familiar with. And above all, marketing is easier on the horror theme and it would be good for us to have less work on that front.

Inksushi: And the move to Unreal means reworking the tools you developed, doesn’t it?

Simon: Mathieu has created something very complete around the Twitch API that will need to be adapted. The important thing is to plan ahead – three quarters of games don’t do this. It’s possible to push interaction very far with secret messages and a specific interface for viewers. It requires a lot of work and you have to build the game around that.

Inksushi: Another question: we’ve talked a lot about communication and the Steam page. Is it that complicated to set up?

Mathieu: You have to realise that the tools available for creating a Steam page are outdated. I think they need to recruit more people to work on it.

Simon: It’s horrible! It reminds me a bit of the CAF website when you have to declare something, it’s slow. It’s slow. There’s this old administrative site where you click and you have to wait five or ten seconds for the page to load, and I’m not talking about a lousy connection. Not to mention the times when it tells you it’s encountered an error and you lose everything you’ve changed on your page. There are tons of fields to fill in. There’s a kind of dashboard that tells you what’s left to do, because the first step is to get Steam to validate it before the page is published. When you click on the notifications, you’re taken to a completely obscure page. Another horrible thing is that once you’ve eliminated the notification, with the description tags for example, the page for modifying them is nowhere to be found. Mathieu and I spent some desperate moments looking for this kind of thing to modify, but navigation is very complicated.

Mathieu : And that’s without taking into account the layout, which you have no option over. Even on skyblogs or old forums you could at least bold titles. With Steam, that’s impossible. There isn’t even a level 2 title.

Simon: It’s complicated to make something cool, you can only use gifs and images to try and make it look pretty and that takes time. When Mathieu and I wanted to make a real first page, we wrote the French and English versions, then we started making the page with Camille Bruneaud, who did the concept art. We did a first test which we thought was cool. We put in the description, the release date and more or less everything they asked for, including images in unlikely formats. We’re finalising the page so that it’s attractive, and we’re adding the trailer. All in all, I think we end up with about two weeks’ work, and then they have to accept it. They made us change it because we weren’t allowed to put a link in the description, but we could put it with other links. We had several exchanges like that for at least a week and then we had to build it all up.

We decided to make the game in several languages because we thought that a free game could tempt people everywhere, so we support nine languages. Then came the problem of the trailer: there’s no subtitle management, as you can find on Youtube. You have to make and import a trailer for each version, or edit nine videos – it was hellish. What’s more, we realised in the meantime that the bottom of the video was cut off by the Steam control bar, the play button and so on. The subtitles were hidden, a real pleasure. I’m happy with the page, it’s the best we’ve done, but it’s long.

We’ve started to put things in place so that it won’t be so laborious next time. Now we know exactly what’s needed and in what format, whether it’s for Steam, Itch or other platforms. When you start out and you say to yourself that you want to create a page, you have to create an account, but to do that you have to create a company, which is a pain from start to finish. We’ve ended up developing a real know-how, and we can see the difference between pages created by people who have already made several games and novices. We’re satisfied because we’ve sent our page to the HowToMarketAGame discord and we’ve had positive feedback. We understand the identity of our game, our universe is clear and the page is cool. There are a few things we need to work on, but it’s working and our intentions have been put across.

Mathieu : It’s never set in stone, there’s always room for improvement.

Simon: We’ve made a lot of progress in terms of communication, both on the trailer and on the page. We’re not there yet, we’re not making a living from it, but we’re making progress. We don’t have a huge wishlist, but it’s a big improvement on what we usually do.

Inksushi: I think we’ve covered the topics for this episode. Thank you for being available. There’s a good chance we’ll meet up again when the game is released, so I’ll keep my fingers crossed. See you all soon.

And that brings us to the end of our hour-long chat. We didn’t talk too much about the game itself, but we felt it was important to detail some of the vagaries of independent development, which we don’t hear much about outside of insider circles. Steam is the reference platform for video games, especially when they are not published. I hope this episode has given you a better understanding of the omnipresence of communication and the difficulties that arise from it. So we’ll leave you here for now, and see you in a few months’ time with a finished game, a return to the playtests and perhaps even a launch, which will allow us to look at other aspects of development. See you then.

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